The MICNP Podcast: Inspiring, Informing, and Advocating for Nurse Practitioners

Episode 1: MICNP & NP Health Policy

• Jen

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This introductory episode explores the Michigan Council of Nurse Practitioners (MICNP), its vision, and the legislative process surrounding health policy. The discussion highlights the challenges nurse practitioners face in advocating for full practice authority in Michigan, the importance of networking and staying informed, and practical advice for new nurse practitioners. The episode emphasizes the need for collective advocacy and engagement to improve healthcare delivery in the state.

Takeaways

  • MICNP aims to create a home base for Michigan NPs.
  • The vision is to improve health through education and advocacy.
  • Understanding the legislative process is crucial for effective advocacy.
  • Health policy can take years to pass due to various challenges.
  • Nurse practitioners need to articulate their roles clearly to legislators.
  • Full practice authority allows NPs to practice to the full extent of their education.
  • Michigan is currently a restricted practice state for NPs.
  • Advocacy Day is an important event for nurse practitioners to engage with legislators.
  • Networking with other NPs can provide support and resources.
  • Effective communication with legislators is essential for advocacy efforts.

Resources

Theme music

Michigan Council of Nurse Practitioners (MICNP): Website

Find us on:

Rachel Hetzner (00:07)
Welcome to the MICNP podcast. I'm Rachel Hetzner, your president-elect. Join us as we bring you the latest insights, discussions, and expert perspectives on the evolving role of nurse practitioners in Michigan and beyond.

Jen McConnell (00:21)
Hosted by the Michigan Council of Nurse Practitioners, MICNP this podcast is your go-to resource for advocacy, education, and professional growth. Whether you're a student, a seasoned NP, or a healthcare leader, we're here to keep you informed, inspired, and connected. Each episode will explore critical topics in clinical practice, healthcare policy, legislative updates, and professional development, all tailored to the unique needs of Michigan NPs.

Tune in as we amplify the voice of nurse practitioners and work together to shape the future of healthcare. Subscribe now and stay tuned for expert conversations, legislative updates, and the latest in NP practice in Michigan.

Jen McConnell (01:48)
Hello everyone and welcome to the first episode of the Michigan Council of Nurse Practitioners, MICNP Podcast, inspiring, informing, and advocating for nurse practitioners. Yay. Woohoo!

Rachel Hetzner (01:57)
Yay!

Justin Hooks (01:57)
Yay!

Jen McConnell (02:13)
I am Jen McConnell and I am a certified family nurse practitioner and board certified psychiatric nurse practitioner. I'm the 2025 PR and marketing committee chair for MICNP and I have taught both undergrad and grad nursing at Madonna, University of Detroit Mercy, and I was also the Director of Medical Emergency Simulation at the University of Detroit Mercy Dental School. That's a mouthful. Justin, want to introduce yourself?

Justin Hooks (02:22)
Hey everyone, my name is Justin. I'm a board certified family nurse practitioner and HIV specialist. I'm the current chair of the MICNP Education Committee. And next is the one and only...

Rachel Hetzner (02:34)
I'm Rachel Hetzner. I am the president-elect for MICNP, board certified adult gerontology primary care nurse practitioner for the past 10 years. I have my own cohort of patients at my primary care practice and I am an assistant professor at the University of Michigan's Flint campus. I teach health policy and I'm the concentration lead for the adult gerontology primary care program.

Justin Hooks (02:56)
So it's so nice to have you as our leader for this podcast. And before we kind of jump into our amazing topic today, I think it's really important to tell our audience, about the Michigan Council of Nurse Practitioners or MICNP Jen, do you know, you're kind of the PR marketing person, so why don't you take the lead here?

Jen McConnell (03:12)
All right. Well, thanks, Justin. I will do that. So as you said, know, MICNP stands for the Michigan Council of Nurse Practitioners. And we are, as you know, a professional organization of nurse practitioners, and we really come from all different fields. Our goal is really to create a home base for our Michigan NPs where we can be the forward thinkers, be innovative and dynamic. And our aim really is to engage and inspire the Michigan nurse practitioners to work together and speak as one kind of collective voice.

The MICNP vision is really to improve the health of all Michigan residents through our education, our advocacy, and engagement of our NP members. And really this podcast is just the start of one of our brand new ways to reach current and potential members and really keep them informed.

Justin Hooks (03:56)
I'm looking so forward to this and it's so nice that we have our co-host as our expert today on this podcast. So Rachel, you actually teach a course in this for U of M Flint, right?

Rachel Hetzner (04:09)
Yes, I do. teach their health policy course there. I've been very involved in policy for quite some time.

Justin Hooks (04:16)
So could you maybe like give us an overview of like how bills are created and packed? Because to be honest, I'm very clueless when it comes to what you do as far as your class.

Jen McConnell (04:16)
we got questions.

Wait, we learned in fifth grade, right?

Rachel Hetzner (04:28)
Yeah, definitely. I know

Justin Hooks (04:30)
Yeah.

Rachel Hetzner (04:32)
and a lot of what I have learned has just been hands on doing these things and researching it all. But yeah, once you use it, the more you learn about it. So in terms of drafting a bill passing a bill,

A lot of people shy away from health policy. They think it's a little bit too contentious, too confrontational about things, but really policy informs everything that we do from our personal life and certainly our professional life. So in terms of drafting a bill initially, there's usually professional organizations. So for nurse practitioner bills, there's, you know, MICNP and

various other professionals, so lobbyists, attorneys, and they work together to draft a bill. What do we want this bill to say? What do we want it to include? And then from there, once you have the solid bill, it is imperative to find a sponsor of the bill. So whether you're going to introduce it in the House, in the Senate, or you can certainly introduce it in both chambers.

it in the Senate, would want a representative to sponsor the bill. And then from there, once you have your sponsors and your bill, it's introduced to the House, the Senate or both. And then from there, in each chamber, there are various committees and

They discuss these different bills that are presented to their committee. for example, the MICNP their last, or our last bill was, in the health policy committee. So once it's assigned to the committee, they will have hearings for the bill with expert testimony on, on the bill, those for and against it. and.

Once it's time for it to come for a vote in that committee, they will vote for the bill against the bill. And then once it passes out of committee, that's when it goes to the full House floor or the full Senate floor. So for the House, if it passed by a two thirds majority of the House, then it would go to the other legislative chamber. would then go to the Senate.

passed by a two thirds majority in the Senate, then it would go to the governor as long as there's no changes that are necessary for the bill. If there are changes, then it would go back and have to be revised and there would have to be a revote. So passes out of committee.

passes both the House floor and the Senate floor, that's when it goes to the governor. And at that point, the governor can sign it into law. They can veto it and just say, nope, we don't want this. And the bill dies. Or they could send it back with different revisions that they would require. And it wouldn't be signed at that point. So there are a lot of steps that you have to get through to get a bill passed into law.

but a lot of the times if you can get through committee and you can get through the house and the Senate, even if there are little revisions, it's usually, usually a bit easier to get to that point. Again, it's when there's large revisions that are needed or when it's, you just don't have the votes that it becomes a problem.

Justin Hooks (07:35)
So you brought up a really good point. This seems like it takes a long time to do a bill. Is that necessarily the case or how long could something like this be?

Rachel Hetzner (07:45)
Yeah, so it can take a long time. It can take years, decades to get something like this passed. And we found that a lot of health care bills in particular meet a lot of resistance. There's a lot of opinions in terms of health care bills for them, against them. But it's quite a hurdle. Not all bills are like that. But

certainly healthcare bills, they often are. And the nurse practitioner bills are bipartisan bills too. But even with that bipartisan support, it can be a bit of a challenge as Michigan nurse practitioners have seen. So, in terms of process, we have, resources, right?

Jen McConnell (08:23)
Yes!

We are going to provide some resources. There is one that we're going to provide in the notes. It's called the student guide. And it really breaks down the process for people to review what we've been talking about, as well as define some of the terms that you'll hear in the legislative process that a lot of us are like, what does that mean? Constituent, what does that mean? So I think, Rachel, you provided us with a very basic overview.

there are so many other things, cause I started reading up on it cause I didn't want to sound like a, you know, I had no idea what I was talking about today, but looking at it, I was reading that the bill has to be read a certain number of times. and then when there are changes, it has to go back to committee or back to the Senate. And so this, like you said, could take, you know, a really long time to, know, if somebody doesn't like that, you said something in one line and it gets changed, that could mean it goes for a whole nother vote. And thinking about it,

You know, it really depends on who we have elected in those positions. If you have someone who has no idea and has never seen a nurse practitioner, doesn't know what they do, they have no idea. mean, they may not choose to vote it through because they feel it possibly might, make them, seem a certain way or, if they're not sure, maybe voted down or somebody said, Hey, you know, I love nurse practitioners and was a friend of theirs who knows?

They could say, yay, let's vote it. So that sounds like it really kind of just depends on who's there and how it's explained to them.

Rachel Hetzner (09:42)
Yeah, and the political environment influences these bills quite a bit too. And you think about it, it's impossible for these legislators to know everything about everything. So they depend on experts that come to them and say, this is what nurse practitioners do. This is who we are. But then of course, there's organizations that lobby against nurse practitioners that would say, you know, this is what we think is going on here.

but not even just healthcare, everything, you know, they are, these legislators are, influencing policy on everything. So they really do depend on, on people that have their ear. So it is important for us to know how to articulate who we are, what we do, and how our practice environment influences that.

Jen McConnell (10:27)
I have to stop Rachel right there because she said there are people out there that are lobbying against us. Come on, who doesn't love a nurse practitioner is what I'm saying. Come on now. gosh.

Rachel Hetzner (10:34)
Believe it or not, right? Believe it or not. imagine

Justin Hooks (10:35)
Mm-hmm. Cheers.

And so like,

Rachel Hetzner (10:40)
such an individual.

Justin Hooks (10:41)
that would do that. But you kind of have to have like an elevator speech, right? You have to have a way to talk about what we do to people. Given your experience, what's the best way to do it?

Rachel Hetzner (10:52)
Yeah. So, I mean, how many times do we, as nurse practitioners have a patient or a family member, someone come up to us and say, so what is a nurse practitioner? And it kind of puts you on the spot. You're like, God, how do I, how do I say what I do in, you know, 30 seconds? You don't want to write, you know, a full essay for them on what we do. so I always recommend that you have what I call quote unquote an elevator speech. So it just, you know,

15 seconds to try and say what you do. for example, what's an NP? NPs, provide safe and effective health care to patients in a variety of settings, inpatient, outpatient, and we do everything from assess patients, order testing, develop a diagnosis, we can prescribe medications, we follow up with the patient. So

I explain that in terms of what a nurse practitioner is. I've had several patients that'll say, what's the difference between a nurse practitioner and a physician? And I will often tell them, I'm in an outpatient setting, of course. I'll say physicians have the medical model and nurse practitioners follow the nursing model.

Our education is a little bit different, but nurse practitioners are safe, effective providers. But knowing what you're going to say in that situation without providing a full, you know, 60 minute PowerPoint presentation, that's important. And then also full practice authority. What is full practice authority? Why do we want it? So how do you...

Rachel Hetzner (12:21)
How do you explain that? So I would say something along the lines of, well, practice authority allows for the nurse practitioner to practice to the full extent of their education and training within their scope of practice. A lot of those lobbying against us would say that we're trying to overreach our scope, but we practice within our scope of practice to our full extent of education and training without the archaic contractual ties with the physician.

Just kind of knowing how to explain that to legislators as well. Like I said, they have a million things that they're talking about and voting on and they want to know succinctly, what do do? What are you looking for?

Jen McConnell (12:57)
Yeah, I like that explanation. So many of us, we see nurse practitioners, we hear nurse and we go in a hospital setting, the doctor writes the order, the nurse carries out the order. Like that's how a lot of that mindset has been for a very long time. although nurse practitioners have been around for a while, I think it's a matter of changing that frame of mind to say like nurse practitioner. We have further education, we have further training and knowledge. So that's really important, I think, to get that point across.

Rachel Hetzner (13:26)
Exactly.

Jen McConnell (13:27)
in looking at the full practice, so we said we know that Michigan's not a full practice state. for example, in the state of Michigan, you need a collaborating physician. We're a restricted state is what we call. So how many other states are, what are, you know, who's full practice? Like where does Michigan lie with all of these other states?

Rachel Hetzner (13:46)
Yeah, so AANP, American Association of Nurse Practitioners, is a great resource for this that they keep up to date on all of the legislative changes. And they classify it as full practice authority, and that's where you have no restrictions. And like I said, you're still practicing within your scope, but to the full extent of your education and training, and you don't have those contractual ties.

And then there's reduced practice where it's not that 100 % you need to have that collaborating physician, but oftentimes there are some restrictions in terms of, know, you have to meet 6,000 hours of practice before you can be full practice or you can only be full practice in this setting or that setting. There's possibly a little bit more autonomy, but not full practice.

And then there's restrictive practice. And that's what the state of Michigan is in which you are not able to practice without a collaborating physician in the state of Michigan. Legally, you are not able to practice in Michigan without a collaborating physician. And...

we are in the minority with that because 27 states in the U.S. currently have full practice authority. And then in addition to that, there are other territories. have it, know, Guam, Washington, D.C. They also have full practice authority. So really, we were one of the few, but there still are some that have that fully restricted practice.

Justin Hooks (15:13)
This is, it seems like Michigan is behind and, and while you were, while you were talking about the AANP website, I was looking at their map and it's pretty interesting how they have full practice and it's a, it's like a traffic light. Green is unrestricted, yellow is in between. And then I just looked in Michigan is actually red. And so that was a really good resource that you had. I think better to be educated, right? As providers, cause we don't learn this stuff.

You teach this for a 16 week course and people have the pleasure of learning from you, but a lot of us don't know.

Rachel Hetzner (15:49)
Yeah, yeah, it's, true. And a lot of nurse practitioners will move out of state so that they can practice, to their full extent, you know, that it delays care, having to wait to have a signature from a physician. because the reality is a lot of the times the physician isn't there all the time. So, it's not the best practice environment for nurse practitioners without full practice authority.

Jen McConnell (16:14)
Yeah. And you know, it's not that in Michigan, we don't have, you know, full practice because we haven't tried because this has been going on for quite some time. It may feel like, you know, nothing's happening, but there's so much going on behind, the Senate and the House and so many different bills have been presented. And as you said, you know, things change, people change, you know, our representatives change. So,

You know, the push for pull practice has been going on for quite some time. I've been hearing about it since I became an NP back in 2015. and I know that MICNP is really one of the main organizations backing these bills to actively push us forward in our practice.

Justin Hooks (16:50)
This is a really valid point because I know a lot of nurse practitioners until today knowing how restricted we are. So Rachel, how long have we actually been trying to make this into law in Michigan?

Rachel Hetzner (17:03)
wow. So MICNP's been around for 25 years and legislative efforts really picked up in the past 10 to 15 years, I would say. So it's been well over a decade that we have been working towards this. There's been different names, numbers of the bill, different sponsors of the bill.

At one point it got all the way to the governor's desk and ended up being vetoed. So we've been working on it for quite some time. And MICNP has really taken the reins on a lot of these legislative efforts. And you think about what the nurse practitioner role was before some of these legislative efforts. A lot of the things that we can do now, we weren't able to do before. mean, even prescribing medications and

since COVID, we can certify home care. there's just so many different things about our practice environment that has changed over the years. But full practice authority is a challenge. I remember having a conversation with the president of AANP shortly after they got full practice authority in the state of New York. And I said, how long have you been working on this? And he was like, well over a decade.

So a lot of the times it is having your bill, making those relationships, and just right when that political environment is right is when it goes. But until then, the struggle is real and we keep working for it.

Justin Hooks (18:15)
Well. I think it's l really important. I give you credit for the work that you do and teaching other students to be advocates. And so we do have some things with MICNP. one thing that I'm just like thinking at the top of my head is we have advocacy day coming up and that's in April. Are you going to be there?

Rachel Hetzner (18:49)
Yes, I will be there. It's one of my favorite events. Last year was really fun. We did it a little bit differently where we had a lunch where the legislators would come to the lunch. And there were a lot of legislators that we got to interact with. And it was kind of neat being in an informal situation like that. And I'm not entirely sure the plans for this year, but it's really a fun event actually, especially with everything that's going on legislatively right now. it's nice to feel involved

Justin Hooks (19:18)
What's other ways that we could be as nurse practitioners to get involved, with MICNP and doing all the wonderful things that you're doing? Do you have some ideas for our listeners of how they can get involved?

Rachel Hetzner (19:30)
Yeah, well, the main thing is to stay informed. Join MICNP stay a member of MICNP Michigan.gov is a good resource for different bills that you could look at. And MICNP will send out, we send out emails and we have different chapter meetings, legislative meet and greets. We try and keep you as updated as possible. So just being a member of your professional organization first and foremost.

You can also, watch the live sessions of the Michigan House, the Senate, get updates on the bill. That might not be as fun as some of the other things. I don't know if any of you watch C-SPAN or something like that for fun, but. No. Just me. Just me, just me. No.

Justin Hooks (20:09)
I don't but

Jen McConnell (20:12)
Let's make sure our representatives are doing what they should be doing.

Justin Hooks (20:17)
Yep.

Rachel Hetzner (20:18)
But yeah, I mean, staying involved in your professional organizations, that's that's one of the big things attending all of all of the things that you possibly can the dinners, the events, advocacy day. And then another thing, donate to your to your PACs, Political Action Committee. We can't host different things, you know, and do what we do without having, you know, the PACs. So donate to your PAC.

Talk to your legislators. That is a huge one. Some people are intimidated by their legislators, but they're just people like you and me. So let them know what we do. Constituents are important to them. We're the ones that get them elected. So talk to them. They care what you have to say because they care about their jobs too. And they really need to hear from you.

A lot of them have coffee hours. can go on their website and find their coffee hours. you can follow their personal accounts on social media that can help inform you about when you can get with them. there's a lot of different ways you just have to, listen for when we reach out to you, pursue them. And we can't get this bill passed without.

the help of fellow nurse practitioners. One person isn't going to get this bill passed. One organization by itself, the board members, they're not going to get this bill passed. It's all of the nurse practitioners collectively coming together and talking to their legislators and explaining to them what we do and what this means for us.

Jen McConnell (21:45)
You know, Rachel, that's a good point. And I had just overheard another nurse practitioner say that she had gone to one of those coffee hours and it just so happened that she had mentioned this bill and the representative was like, what are you talking about? And then suddenly these other like community members were there and they were like, whoa, I love my nurse practitioner. And it turned into this like, this almost like group discussion or not ganging up on, but you know, like, hey, what are you going to do? You know, it's a nurse practitioner. So I know sometimes it's maybe our patients who are willing to come forward and say, no, I love seeing my nurse practitioner and I want them to be able to see me more often and without these, you know, structured environments where they can't do what they need to do in a timely basis. So that's a wonderful thing.

Rachel Hetzner (22:14)
huh. Yeah. I went to a coffee hour with one of, the senators that represents a more rural area. And I told him what I was there for and explained what nurse, who nurse practitioners are, what we do. And I didn't even have to keep talking because it was a room full of people. A lot of them were a little bit older and talking about, you know, other

infrastructure things of their community. And they just they went hard on him. And they they were just very much like, you know, we do have a gap in care here. What are you doing to address this? Because I'm like, man, look at you guys. So thanks for that. But it's it can be quite enjoyable and entertaining and Also hearing what other people are concerned about too. You're like, I didn't even think of that, okay, all right. Maybe I'll look into that one too.

Jen McConnell (23:28)
So if we design like a flash mob, do think that would help too?

Rachel Hetzner (23:32)
sure it would. That again would be more entertaining than watching C-SPAN too. So, no. Or Michigan.gov, whatever we're doing.

Justin Hooks (23:38)
I really like my PBS even more and more than the thing, but you brought up a really good point. There's ways that nurse practitioners can be advocates. And I guess being an advocate for yourself is what's most important. Now there's many different ways, like I was just looking up while you were talking about all these resources I didn't know about, is how you can reach out to your elected officials. So there's email and phone. What do you think is the best way to do that?

Rachel Hetzner (23:43)
Ha. I say definitely talking to them on the phone would be more impactful than just to connect on that personal level. Talking on the phone would be more impactful and meeting with them. However, if we're looking for a large quantity of nurse practitioners to share this is what we do, a lot of the times it can be easier if we're going to get that impact by the volume, by everyone emailing them too. Whatever we can do to interact with them is better than nothing. So I would say if you can meet with them, that would be the best. If you can call them, that would be great too. But if all you can do is send an email, send an email, send it once a month, send it once a week, drive them crazy, just keep sending it.

Jen McConnell (24:55)
Well, and you make a really good point, Rachel, because there have been formatted emails that you can use and just plug in and actually it will find your representative or whom you need to send it to. And it's kind of prewritten and then you just put your name in there and it will auto send it. I mean, you don't even have to come up with the, you know, the wording. There are

Justin Hooks (24:59)
Yeah.

Jen McConnell (25:19)
definitely ways to do that. I think having you as an instructor and being able to teach the students and then coming back and sharing that with us who maybe some of us are a little out of the loop. Like, you know, we haven't studied that since we were in fifth grade. So we're kind of like, you know, there were songs about that and like the magic school bus and stuff, right. So how to make a bill. Yeah.

Rachel Hetzner (25:23)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hetzner (25:35)
Exactly. Yes. Yes. How to make a bill.

Justin Hooks (25:36)
So you brought up a lot of good information here. Now, you've been an MP for a long time, or not a long time, but you've been an MP for quite a while, more than I have. What's some, if you were to look at your beginner self, for those that are joining MICNP that are new to practice, what advice could you give to our students and the new nurse practitioners that you know now that you wish you knew then?


Rachel Hetzner (26:07)
the main thing I would say is just to know your resources. it doesn't have to be a physician. can be a nurse practitioner or anyone else that, can be a resource to you and get involved in your organizations I have a group of nurse practitioner friends and we make it an event every year to go to the annual MICNP conference.

And whether we're able to with our schedule or not, make it, we make it work in some way, or form. And it's just that opportunity to first of all, get away. It's a, you know, girls weekend, guys weekend, just weekend. Yeah, yeah, there's karaoke and we hang out and we gossip about our

Justin Hooks (26:49)
karaoke 

Rachel Hetzner (26:57)
families that, you know, kids are driving us a little crazy or whatever is going on. And it's, it's a little escape. Um, and we kind of commiserate about what's going on in our practice and where we're at with things. And it's really a neat opportunity just to network or even if you're not meeting new people to carve out that time with your NP friends to get together, that's the one time of the year that you're all going to be together. So that's what I would say for new NPs is just, you know, know your resources and know your people. And if you don't have your people, then make your people. We will, will be your people.

Justin Hooks (27:42)
Jen, do you have any advice Jen at all either or like?

Jen McConnell (27:44)
That's so true.

Well, I want to say I've met some of the greatest people. know nurses like to stick together. But man, I mean, when you become an NP and you kind of feel a little more out of your league with maybe your old nurse friends and, know, you're an NP now. I still love my nursing friends. But there comes a point, too, where you're just like, OK, I want to talk about like what it means to be a provider, this extra stress I'm having this collaborating physician that I need to work with. . .

And I have found some of the greatest people and some of the, you know, the best people. And the greatest thing is we've got people from, you know, newly started or in school to, you know, doctorate level been practicing for years and there's so much to learn. I even see people who are on the brink of retirement that are like, I never thought of it that way. When newer, you know, NPs come in or just things are changing. And it's so amazing to network with such great.

great people.

Rachel Hetzner (28:41)
And one of the things that I've noticed too, even after practicing for 10 years, is that it's a good way to kind of benchmark things. So you share what's your schedule like? What are your, are they bonusing you? Things like that. What's your vacation time? What's your sick pay? So it kind of will show you what other people are getting and that will help you kind of guide where you're at right now in terms of.

maybe I should be getting that or maybe I've got it pretty good. Yeah, yeah, maybe it's time for a raise. So it's nice being able to kind of share that stuff with other NPs to see where you're at and is that the norm?

Justin Hooks (29:09)
asking for a raise.

Jen McConnell (29:10)
Yeah.

Justin Hooks (29:13)
That's that's a big thing

Jen McConnell (29:22)
That's great. that you said that. That just brought something to mind. I actually met somebody through being an NP in education that kind of taught me how to bargain and how to negotiate a contract. I mean, I am not one for confrontation, you know, and sometimes we as women are like, you know, we walk in and we kind of look for you're offering me a job and you take the first thing, you know, first offer because you're afraid the person behind you is going to take this job. And really 

Rachel Hetzner (29:33)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jen McConnell (29:49)
you have to know your worth and what is my worth while you talk to other people you network you understand like what that means and I got a lot of great advice and a lot of good networking through MICNP and things like that so I feel like not just the annual conference which is always nice because you see people in person but just from emailing and meeting up if you're not too far in proximity and different conferences even just keeping those relationships going. It's been great.

Rachel Hetzner (30:15)
Yeah.

Justin Hooks (30:15)
So as we successfully did it, we actually created our first episode. And so I should tell all of our listeners it's probably going to get better, right? it's going to give me... But it's so... You you guys brought up such a good point. And that's why I joined MICNP for the opportunities that we have. And so, you know...

Rachel Hetzner (30:18)
Woohoo!

Jen McConnell (30:20)
Woohoo!

Rachel Hetzner (30:30)
judge us based on this one.

Jen McConnell (30:32)
Yeah.

Justin Hooks (30:43)
Everyone needs to, we have so many webinars lined up that are available that we provide continuing education credits that are free if you're a member. If you're a non-member, this is even more of an important pitch to you to join and see the benefit of not only from education podcasts like this and actually hearing from one of our hosts, which is our president-elect and is gonna be the president moving forward of our organization. And so it's important that you remain active. And so for our annual conference, please save the date. It's going to be October 10th through the 12th at the Westin in Southfield. We have a wonderful theme this year titled, innovate, integrate, motivate, which is the future of practice. And we have a call for abstracts So if you're interested in getting involved, definitely this is the place to be.

Jen McConnell (31:35)
Awesome. Woohoo! yeah.

And with that, we will be signing off. Make sure you subscribe. Make sure you keep listening, because like Rachel said, it will get better. Justin said it will get better. This is our trial run, but hopefully... I wonder how many people are singing that song about how to make a bill. I don't remember it, but I do remember the little like bill running across like the steps. I don't know. But anyways, all right.

Rachel Hetzner (31:46)
It doesn't get much better than that.

It really doesn't. None of the content I make for my courses could ever be better than that.

Jen McConnell (31:59)
I just want to remind our listeners that when you go to the resources posted in our notes, we'll give you a few resources on how to join MICNP as well as some review on some things that we talked about. So thank you for joining us. Hope to see you again.


People on this episode

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Justin Hooks

Co-host
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Rachel Hetzner

Co-host
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Jen McConnell

Producer